Soft Top Adjustment

[AndyT]

I'm trying to adjust the fit of my soft top as the windows go over the seals rather than under them.

I think I have to much tension in the frame. With the roof up and without the rear bars locked into place I can close the doors and the windows go under the seals. As soon as I lock the rear bars into place, the rails over the windows bend down into a sort of shallow "V" shape and on closing the doors the windows now are on top of the seals.

I think the frame needs lifting up on the B post to releave the pressure. I've tried this but still having problems.

Does anyone know the exact size of the adjusting bolts to use. In the service manual it says M12's but they will be miles to big. I've bought some M8's but they are just slightly to big i.e I can get one in, just, but it's re threading as it goes.

I can see 6 threaded holes (3 each side) on the B posts under the spring for the roof but is there any adjustment any where else?

[muley]

Andy

There's just the three threaded holes each side. It took me AGES to find bolts that fitted - in the end I got some coach bolts - the ones with the square bit under the mushroom head that just about fitted. I got them from B&Q

I just slackened off the fixing bolts after I had the coach bolts in and adjusted away ... it was a bit time consuming because I had to take the coach bolts out each time to get the hood down I should probably spend more time on it but it's close enough now.

Good luck

Jim

[lotusgirlmarie]

I know that on the FED cars they have adjusting cams in the middle if the trailing links that you adjust by loosening the allen bolt and turning the cam. There are quite a few other adjustments on the frame with the seals but I think the cams should do the trick

[saska]

AndyT
I had a very badly aligned top on a BRG car I'm working on and it also leaked like a sieve. I noticed that the black main hood frame bracket was further forward in the BRG B pillar post on one side and also sat much lower in the B Post. If you look at the top of inboard forward black corner of the convertible top B post bracket you can see how much space there is between it and the B post itself (car colour) and also you can see how much space there is between the top of the soft top bracket and the B post pillar top.
The way I approached this was to put the 6 bolts in (I think mine were M8 X 100mm - metric thread. I didn't bother cutting one down to 80mm ) I put a touch of oil on the first part of the threads to lube the dirty threads on the car and they all hand screwed in until hand tight. Then measured the length of each bolt left sticking out with a mm ruler. Suffice to say they were very different on each side.
There is also a bolt on the inboard side at the top rear of the soft top bracket that is angled against a stop -- this has 2 locking nuts at the rear. This controls the angle of the falling pillar (how far forward the falling pillar goes when you raise the top but before you lock it down. From your posting this may be where you have a problem. I removed some of the rear cavity trim and loosened the 4 bolts securing the conv top to B Post.
On the assumption that the elan has an exceptionally rigid chassis and therefore (barring accident damage) the B posts are correctly located, I then baselined everything on the hood bracket positions, in my case because everything pointed to the left side having changed, I measured everything on the right side (3 100mm bolts plus the angled bolt) and adjusted the left side to match and set the 2 eccentric cams on the rear deck arms (as mentioned by LGM) to their minimum on the cam. Then I erected the hood and checked a load of things:
Centration of the header rail with lockdown points (before clipping it down)
Whether the rails along the top of the 2 side windows were straight
How much effort it took to take the top 'over-centre' (from when the front part is nearly straight up)
The position of the rear deck arms (are they both straight and locked)
Then check the position of the windows in all the seals and also the interface between the bottom of the falling pillar seal and the top of the B post seal.
It took a lot of patience and time (~4 hours) to get it right. I would highly recommend baselining as, though adjustments were still required, the whole top fit and operated much better after setting both sides equal.
A rough guide is:
The 4 horizontal 100mm bolts control centration of the hood on the header rail and also the 'reach to header rail' along with the angled nut with 2 nuts on it.
The 2 vertical bolts control the fit of B post to falling pillar seal and how far down the rear deck lid has to go to lock as well as vertical contact of header rail with top of windscreen.
The angled nuts are the real bugger to get right as small adjustments make a lot of difference. They seem to influence the 'over-centre effort', contact with rear deck, the trailing rear arm position and the alignment of the falling pillar seals with the rear edge of the window glass and also the straightness of the 2 seals along the top of each window.
I adjusted the eccentric cams on the rear deck arms last to get them both to lock straight and evenly.
Before you start on the adjustments ensure that you've tightened all the hood frame allan bolts -- a couple of mine were loose.
I'll try to take some photos next time I'm over at the nursery working on the car.
Good luck
(Edit 7 Apr 09 -- photos added)

[AndyT]

Thanks for all the advice, particularly Tony for the detailed reply.

I'll go and give it a go

[ratman]

ciao to all!
I'm in trouble with the top header rail seal.
I changed it with a brand new one for my S2. it seems good but I'm not rally able to fit in the correct position against the header rail.
there is a very little gap that is enough for water coming in. It seems that the pressure of the front lip of the seal is not enough for the complete sealing.
I moved forward and backward the roof but with no results. I would increase the pressure of the two latches but I don't know how to do....
Do you have any Idea?? as far as the seal is new, it should work and I want to find the way.

Grazie!

[Marcus_uk]

ciao to all!
I'm in trouble with the top header rail seal.
I changed it with a brand new one for my S2. it seems good but I'm not rally able to fit in the correct position against the header rail.
there is a very little gap that is enough for water coming in. It seems that the pressure of the front lip of the seal is not enough for the complete sealing.
I moved forward and backward the roof but with no results. I would increase the pressure of the two latches but I don't know how to do....
Do you have any Idea?? as far as the seal is new, it should work and I want to find the way.

Grazie!

Hi Ratman,

Did you every find out if there was a way to adjust the latches to get more pressure on the header rail. Ive got the same problem as you and adjusting the latches would be an easier and neater way than sikaflex and/or and extra seal profile on the actual windscreen rail.

[ratman]

no, unfortunately not!

[Marcus_uk]

no, unfortunately not!

Does your header rail leak on one side? If so clip in that side first... dont ask me how it works, but it seems to on mine.

Ive also discovered that there are different sized shims available for the bracket which the latch attaches to. This will give us what we are after, more pressure on the header rail seal!

I havent been able to track down any so im going to make one up myself/play around with some washers and see what the results are.

This thread should show you what I mean:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15473

Ill let you know how I get on

[ratman]

I made 2 couples of 1mm thick shims in order to seee if the sail will be pressed enough agains the top rail.
I should see next rainy day!
ciao, F.

[MattDon]

Hi Ratman,

Did you every find out if there was a way to adjust the latches to get more pressure on the header rail.

when i wanted to tighten the fit of my hard top i just put a few washers under the latch clip on the header rail.

[DeanG]

Excellent stuff. Please post to the Wiki so it is easy to find.

[baldyash]

My s/top suddenly went twisted to one side when pulled forward & the nearside latch was miles away from the header rail. What was the problem? well it was that angled bolt & nut. The lock nut had come of & allowed the bolt to unscrew. Still couldnt fathom out how to correct it & then found when the hood was down the bolt was just ---well, there, hand tight. Wound it in , new lock nut & hey, a perfect fit again. (well for a Lotus Elan anyway!)Great write up & pic---Many Thanks

[Steve_P]

Saska - thanks for the write up, a big help B&Q bolts M8 x 100 work a treat.

My hood has never fitted properly so I've spent the last 13 years hood down most weathers.

Biggest problem I had is the rear lifting at speed on one side. What I can't do is straighten and lock the
two rear arms, the ones with the cam adjuster. I checked the owners manual and there is no mention of
having to lock these when the hood is pulled forward and latched at the header?! Is it normal to have to
push these UP after raising the roof?

Anyway, after a weekend of fettling the roof is now a lot better even with the rear arms unlocked,
what I have noticed quite by accident is that one of the stop pins in the hood frame above the window, on the side
that is lifting, has a circular metal shim missing that is present on the opposite side. Hopefully sorting this will finally
cure the lifting

It really is an amazingly complicated mechanism the Elan's roof, I'm sure it must have taken Tickford a fair few prototypes
to get that little lot of metal parts to work! Must have been a significant part of the cars cost!

[surfboardfiller]

Just read this post and although a little late, I thought I should mention that the problem isn't the position of the hood, but the tension bars are bent.
They are shaped rods of steel by your head, when sat in the car.
I had some that were from a well fitting hood I used as a pattern to bend my others back into shape and it fixed the problem strait away. 15 mins with a vice.