Help explain what has been modified please

[Nige]

Is that 90% based on physical movement, or the Throtle Position Sensor readout? I suggest the first thing to do would be to check foot flat onthe floor fully opens the throttle and adjust the throttle cable accordingly if it doesn't.

[OZZY]

Is that 90% based on physical movement, or the Throtle Position Sensor readout? I suggest the first thing to do would be to check foot flat onthe floor fully opens the throttle and adjust the throttle cable accordingly if it doesn't.

Took up most of the slack from the cable tonight (there was a lot) it's showing 98% now with my foot to the floor on elanscan.

[OZZY]

Went out for a drive tonight with the BBR kit stripped, the waste gate is much less active than before, more like a normal car, it's still rapid but not as raw, only showing about .6 on the boost gauge at max and not quite so quick to react to the throttle pedal, but I prefer it this way, the turbo and waste gate were close to being overactive as it was with the BBR kit.

I still have the starting issue from warm, and I'm even experiencing what feels and sounds like its only firing on three cylinders when I first start it, I got caught out with the bonnet open on Sunday in the torrential rain so have put it down to that at the moment, but am wondering whether it could be an air leak causing erratic idling when cold??

Thanks again for all your help - its a great forum and source of information.

[CJ101KT]

Well I didn't realise my old Elan could create such an informative topic. Glad you got my email this evening, I'm just about dry from being at Cholmondeley all weekend. You are correct in that I fitted a Kilimanjaro Mountain Chip but as for the BBR kit I have absolutely no idea, didn't even know it was on the car. The Elan was always a little temperamental starting from warm but it was never a problem and strangely I know another Elan owner who has exactly the same issue.

[OZZY]

Went out for a drive this evening without the BBR Kit installed, mountain chip probably Kilimanjaro working, everything back where it should be, I ran elanscan whist driving, first try it didnt seem to communicate properly, second attempt was after a reboot and we were travelling at about 70 mph on the M1 so up to speed and temp etc by the time we started recording.

Attached hopefully is the file, can anyone read it and make sense of it because I can't, I really would appreciate some opinions on this as the results I'm looking at seem totally wrong, I floored it a couple of times to get some useful data whilst on the M1, then dropped off and parked up a mile or so from the motorway.

log2.zip

[wayne]

Looking at the log file I'd say max boost was at about .9 bar

Not sure what to make of all the data between 250 - 300 seconds ? Possibly a faulty signal, loose cable?

Hopefully there will be an expert along soon to give you the proper meaning of it

[GeoffSmith]

John, I've had a quick look and can't see anything out of the ordinary apart from a few knocks and the garbage between 250 and 300s which may be an earth problem as it is affecting all signals. Did you experience any issues while driving or are you looking for confirmation that things look sensible? It is also important that you check the base timing if you are having issues.

[OZZY]

I'm looking to get some reassurance that all is well after taking the BBR kit off and trying out the software for the first time.

I'm either reading the data the wrong way or configuring it badly! First time I've used it in anger. I'm using a borrowed lead and laptop at the moment, I just couldnt make sense of the readings and was only getting .4 or .5 bar on the gauge at most, the graphs I made up seemed to suggest it was 1.75! So i was wondering whether I was getting a load of garbage due to a faulty connection. It did keep reporting errors in connection whilst I was logging.

Would you say it was ok? Atypical of a Kili chip installation, Piper 2.25" and ported wast-gate?

If I have any issues I would like to sort them out so really appreciate your advice.

[saska]

Attached hopefully is the file, can anyone read it and make sense of it because I can't, I really would appreciate some opinions on this as the results I'm looking at seem totally wrong, I floored it a couple of times to get some useful data whilst on the M1, then dropped off and parked up a mile or so from the motorway.

Looks like something went wrong with comms at about 300secs and it has thrown all the parameters way out, so I've chopped off the last bit and made a new file of the first part of the run.

log2_1.zip

This file looks pretty normal to me except that there are 3 knock events @ about 95secs but no spark retard was applied so they're probably not serious.
Max boost was 0.91Bar.
The secondary throttle never opened.
Since we only got data from a high speed run would be good if you did the following from cold:
1. Connect ES cable
2. Switch ignition on (but don't start)
3. Start logging
4. Press accelerator to floor and let it back up
5. Start engine -- let it warm up until the fans cut in.
6. Go for a run -- try to include some full throttle runs in second and third up to 5000+ RPM.
7. Stop and let it idle for 30secs
8. Stop logging and save the file
9. Post up the log file

[OZZY]

Thanks a lot for that info, I'll try and do that run tomorrow evening and keep my fingers crossed that the connection behaves this time.

On the last run you are correct that I hit .9 bar but it only happened once and as much as I tried I couldn't make it happen again.

Im going to have a look at re-routing the airline from the bcv to the air intake next, I'm not happy where its routed, feeding off the bottom of the bcv it has to do a very tight U turn when it hits the gearbox/clutch housing. The hose is straight at this point where it's had the inline connector fitted bypassing the bcv in the past, it might even have started to degrade. Are hoses still readily available?

I've fitted some new HT leads this evening - boy what a job is that! Allowed myself 20 mins to do it in and it took me about 3 hours! Saying that I did remove the BBR box from the bulk head which was positioned right next to the alarm, behind the header tank.

Can anyone tell me what this lead should be connected to? Its hanging out of the loom close to the BCV (which is connected by a different plug).

[OZZY]

For anyone interested here a picture of the BBR kit, a blue box a small metal restrictor which I think has .7mm stamped on it, onlt bit missing is the straight through air line adapter, I broke that removing it.

[OZZY]

Sasca, thanks again for doing this, I caread your data and understand it, if I go back to my original then you can probably see why I thought the data was corrupt, showing 1.75 boost and 180 mph etc. How did you identify the corrupt data and filter it?

Attached hopefully is the file, can anyone read it and make sense of it because I can't, I really would appreciate some opinions on this as the results I'm looking at seem totally wrong, I floored it a couple of times to get some useful data whilst on the M1, then dropped off and parked up a mile or so from the motorway.

Looks like something went wrong with comms at about 300secs and it has thrown all the parameters way out, so I've chopped off the last bit and made a new file of the first part of the run.

log2_1.zip

This file looks pretty normal to me except that there are 3 knock events @ about 95secs but no spark retard was applied so they're probably not serious.
Max boost was 0.91Bar.
The secondary throttle never opened.
Since we only got data from a high speed run would be good if you did the following from cold:
1. Connect ES cable
2. Switch ignition on (but don't start)
3. Start logging
4. Press accelerator to floor and let it back up
5. Start engine -- let it warm up until the fans cut in.
6. Go for a run -- try to include some full throttle runs in second and third up to 5000+ RPM.
7. Stop and let it idle for 30secs
8. Stop logging and save the file
9. Post up the log file

[JonT]

The hose is straight at this point where it's had the inline connector fitted bypassing the bcv in the past, it might even have started to degrade. Are hoses still readily available?

I replaced most of my hoses with IIRC 5.6mm or 6mm (internal diameter) fuel hose. Halfords (and probably most motor factors) sell it in metre lengths then just cut it to whatever size you need.

[saska]

How did you identify the corrupt data and filter it?

It was pretty obvious where things went screwy. This threw the x/y parameter scales way off.
Used the cursor on the graph to select 0-290secs (before the corruption) then Edit > Copy to New dataset
So now in the Select Table/Cursor Dataset dropdown you should have Dataset1 as well as the original file.
If you leave it on the original file and File > Close Dataset then it will show Dataset1 (with correct axis parameters). I then saved Dataset1 as Log2_1.ecu

[OZZY]

The hose is straight at this point where it's had the inline connector fitted bypassing the bcv in the past, it might even have started to degrade. Are hoses still readily available?

I replaced most of my hoses with IIRC 5.6mm or 6mm (internal diameter) fuel hose. Halfords (and probably most motor factors) sell it in metre lengths then just cut it to whatever size you need.

I bought some vaccum hose from Halfords in readiness but decided not to use tham as the internal diameter looked too small, I suppose fuel pipe ought to be good enough though.

Thanks

[OZZY]

How did you identify the corrupt data and filter it?

It was pretty obvious where things went screwy. This threw the x/y parameter scales way off.
Used the cursor on the graph to select 0-290secs (before the corruption) then Edit > Copy to New dataset
So now in the Select Table/Cursor Dataset dropdown you should have Dataset1 as well as the original file.
If you leave it on the original file and File > Close Dataset then it will show Dataset1 (with correct axis parameters). I then saved Dataset1 as Log2_1.ecu

Thanks Sasca I'll have a play with it later and hopefully get my head around it.

I use Macs most of the time so am having to do the tests with a notebook, and its painfully slow.

[dapinky]

The hose is straight at this point where it's had the inline connector fitted bypassing the bcv in the past, it might even have started to degrade. Are hoses still readily available?

I replaced most of my hoses with IIRC 5.6mm or 6mm (internal diameter) fuel hose. Halfords (and probably most motor factors) sell it in metre lengths then just cut it to whatever size you need.

I bought some vaccum hose from Halfords in readiness but decided not to use tham as the internal diameter looked too small, I suppose fuel pipe ought to be good enough though.

Thanks

I used 4mm bore silicone hose (bought by the meter) for most of my vacuum hoses, with a bit of 6mm for the pipes you're talking about - quite cheap on e-bay.... These are the guys i bought from - 1m of the 6mm bore, 6m of the 4mm bore myworld.ebay.co.uk/silicone_hose_world/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

[OZZY]

I have attached a log of tonights journey, I followed the instructions as best I could, traffic permitting.

I fitted some HT leads last night and they seem to be OK, so there's a relief.

When I start her up she is usually very fuelly, a strong smell of petrol which then goes away almost instantly, is this normal? She ticks over very lumpy when I first start her up as well as if she's only firing on 3 but I'm wondering whether the injectors are working properly as there is no backfiring. After a while she calms down and to drive away tonight she was fine.

Maybe someone can see whats happening from the data?

When I run the software I am getting constant messages implying there is no connection and that annoying pinging noise that only a Win dows computer makes when its not connecting to a device.

Anyway opinions please?

[saska]

When I start her up she is usually very fuelly, a strong smell of petrol which then goes away almost instantly, is this normal? She ticks over very lumpy when I first start her up as well as if she's only firing on 3 but I'm wondering whether the injectors are working properly as there is no backfiring. After a while she calms down and to drive away tonight she was fine.
Maybe someone can see whats happening from the data?

The good bits:
1. You're making 150HP @5000rpm in third with a boost of 0.81bar (HP is calculated but is nevertheless respectable unless you were going down a steep hill @1408secs)
2. You're making max boost of 0.91bar
3. The secondary throttle is operating as is EGR
4. Your thermostat & fans are working normally
5. Suspect this was a pretty quick car during the run -- maybe not as quick as the BBR but then it doesn't have the engine protections of the Kili chip.

The bad bits:
1. There are 6 knock events and the last was severe enough to have 1.60° of spark retard applied.
2. The first 300secs of the log show very lumpy running -- spark advance and iac position all over the shop.
3. Even after 300 secs (still at idle) the spark advance is varying a lot -- between 10-23°. It should be a much narrower range -- around 5-6°
See here for a more normal spark advance graph.

Why this should be I can't say because ES stops at the coil packs, the ECU tells them when to fire but has no idea whether the coil pack actually delivers a spark to the relevant cylinder.
So if a coil pack, lead or plug is weak or faulty then you can't really see it in ES.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along to tell you where best to start. It 'sounds' like a connection is getting damp until the engine warms up enough but even after 60° (300secs) the idle spark advance is still varying too much.

[OZZY]

Saska thanks very much for going to the trouble of examining my log.

I really want to get to the bottom of the starting issue, as your comments confirm the initial 5mins idling from cold are very lumpy, although starting is not a problem at this stage. If I drive off it feels like it's intermittently just firing on three but there's no backfiring, it's as if it is starved of feul, i wonder whether I have a problem with one of the injectors . I changed the HT leads and plugs over the weekend and it's just the same. What's strange is the fuelly smell on start up, that doesn't seem to make sense with the apparent starvation I suspect immediately afterwards. If I try and start the car soon after I've turned of when warm it starts immediately. If I leave it for 10 mins then it takes quite some time to start and it only just manages to.

On removal of the plugs they seemed a little sooty as if the fuel mixture was a little on the rich side - but not much, I dont think I'm burning oil either, engine has done 59k miles and seems good aside from this problem.

Does the timing seem OK after the initial 5 mins?

I've fuelled up and droped some injector cleaner in the tank just in case that might help.

What sould i do next ?Could base timing be an issue or does it sound like coil packs?