Failed MOT

[Quantum2001]

I'm relatively new to the forum and have not made many postings, I've had my Elan for about a year but for a large percentage of that time it's been laid up. I took it for an MOT yesterday and it failed on a few things, brakes, washers and emissions. I can easily fix the brakes and the washers, in fact there is nothing wrong with the washers but the tester forgot what I told him when he took the car in. The thing I'm a bit stuck on is the emissions. It has been running on 3 cylinders sometimes when I've started it and also did on the test so I've ordered some new plugs and I think I'll do the leads as well as they look very old. The mechanic said to change the O2 sensor, but I can see one easily.

The car is a 1992 SE Turbo registered in August and is fitted with a Magnex stainless exhaust, would it have an O2 sensor and if it does where is it located.I had also thought about changing the standard air filter for a K&N to introduce a bit more air, what do people think?

Thanks in advance,
Russell

[alan e]

If its a 92 se it wont have a sensor unless its been changed to closed loop, the sensor will be in front and to the left of the turbo with cable coming out from the top of it going into plug by the off side light lift motor.

[Quantum2001]

Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

[dapinky]

Russel,

can I confirm that we are talking about a UK (RHD) Elan SE????

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Russell,

We are assuming you are in the EU, or more specifically in the UK.

I'm on the other side of the Atlantic, but I believe a 1992 M100 is still an SE and not an S2. It is "possible" for your car to have an O2 sensor, but it didn't come with the car when it was first delivered. If it has been upgraded, it still wouldn't have a CAT, so the inspector may be using the wrong specifications completely.

The S2 came out in 1995 (?) and it was the only European version with a CAT and an O2 sensor. The US/FED version was 1991 only and it too has a CAT and O2.

Do you know if it has any of the "Mountain" performance chips installed? (1499) is the most common variant. If you do, then it is possible someone has upgraded to the S2 specification to take advantage of an O2 sensor.

If you update your profile with your location, there is probably someone nearby that can look at the car and tell you immediately if you have an O2 sensor.

This pictures shows where the O2 should be if you have one:

Exh Manifold.JPG

The RED circle is the O2 sensor and the BLUE circle is where it would be if you have one (at the near side of the manifold right in the front of the engine). It will have 4 wires and if you don't have one, there will be a large hex shaped plug where it would go.

The fact you have a misfire, I am amazed the inspector even tested it because it would have had a really bad result. If the plugs are fairly old, then you should certainly change them but be sure to gap them correctly. I strongly suggest you put the correct and original plugs in the car. The engine was designed to use those plugs and not any of the newer "special" metals or ceramic designs. BKR6E Gap: 0.8mm (0.031") is what you want.

Misfiring can also be caused by a dirty/sticking/damaged injector, so do some searching to find suggestions on how to identify which is causing the misfire and how to diagnose the cause.

[alan e]

Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

BCN If its a MOT it must be in the Uk and the tester is using the wrong data its not got a cat this happens a lot here take it back to get it re tested using the right data evan if its been changed to closed loop its still tested has a none cat car ie a 92se.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

BCN If its a MOT it must be in the Uk and the tester is using the wrong data its not got a cat this happens a lot here take it back to get it re tested using the right data evan if its been changed to closed loop its still tested has a none cat car ie a 92se.

I understand, but just wanted to explain the possibilities. I know the '92 and newer cars have the O2 wiring completely available without any special work, so there would be no other indication of someone just adding an O2 and 1499 chip to get better fuel economy.

[Quantum2001]

Sorry, yes I should have been clearer, I am in the UK. I'm just waiting for the anti-seize to work on the bolts holding on the turbo cover and then I'll be able to tell. I've had issues before with one of my kit cars where they tried to test it to the wrong standard because it didn't come up on the DVLA system.

The washers on the car have been changed to work with a toggle switch instead of the stalk and I told the tester this and he still failed it on this. I tried it when I got home and it worked fine. I'm planning to change it back to work with the stalk and am guessing there is something wrong with the switch, would I be write in thinking the stalks are 1980s Cavalier/Astra? I can't see them listed on the compatibility chart I have.

Regards,
Russell

[alan e]

Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

BCN If its a MOT it must be in the Uk and the tester is using the wrong data its not got a cat this happens a lot here take it back to get it re tested using the right data evan if its been changed to closed loop its still tested has a none cat car ie a 92se.

I understand, but just wanted to explain the possibilities. I know the '92 and newer cars have the O2 wiring completely available without any special work, so there would be no other indication of someone just adding an O2 and 1499 chip to get better fuel economy.

BCN we always take notice of your input ( well i do ).

[alan e]

Sorry, yes I should have been clearer, I am in the UK. I'm just waiting for the anti-seize to work on the bolts holding on the turbo cover and then I'll be able to tell. I've had issues before with one of my kit cars where they tried to test it to the wrong standard because it didn't come up on the DVLA system.

The washers on the car have been changed to work with a toggle switch instead of the stalk and I told the tester this and he still failed it on this. I tried it when I got home and it worked fine. I'm planning to change it back to work with the stalk and am guessing there is something wrong with the switch, would I be write in thinking the stalks are 1980s Cavalier/Astra? I can't see them listed on the compatibility chart I have.

Regards,
Russell

No need to take the turbo covers off to check it sticks up through the cover if you can see a large bolt head about 25mm wide poking through a hole in the cover you have not got a sensor, you would have to remove this bold to fit the sensor.

[dapinky]

It was a fair assumption that the car was a UK spec SE in the UK, but I could see little point in conjecture until it was confirmed (I know of ROW/LHD etc cars over here)...

Anyway, the car will have no cat, and any O2 sensor shouldn't matter regarding the MOT test. The car should be tested to 1991 standards, with an emmissions limit of 3.5% and 1200ppm.

It can be hard for some cars to pass the test (even at these limits, especially if it is a very early car with the first-generation EPROM), but certainly shouldn't be tested against the far more stringent limits for Cat equipped cars from later time (and even they should be tested to the earlier limits as the car isn't listed in the appropriate Appendix of the VOSA paper).

Anyway, the picture shows the 'plug' which was fitted to UK SE's, and which is replaced with the O2 sensor on later cars/foreign cars/cars which have been retro-fitted with one (along with a suitable EPROM chip).

engine bay lo res.jpg

[Quantum2001]

That's great, I can see the large bolt head so no O2 sensor, something less to worry about. Reading the MOT the first fast idle reading was 3.59% vol and the second was 4.17% vol so the second one was too high.

Regards, Russell

[John_W]

Have you seen this recent similar thread?

[Saltire]

I would also think carefully about where you take the Elan for its MoT. In my experience many run-of-the-mill MoT stations aren’t willing or competent to test classic cars. I’ve been told on several occasions “not to bring it back because we can’t cope”.

On emissions, when I had my Alfa Spider, one tester failed it. I took it with no adjustments to my local “shed”, run by a pensioner with oily fingers, and he passed it. I asked him to explain, and he said “Look, it’s a 1972 car. I start it up, and if I can see the garage wall through the cloud of exhaust smoke, it’s fine”

My last MoT emissions result on my S2 is here.

[muley]

I would also think carefully about where you take the Elan for its MoT. In my experience many run-of-the-mill MoT stations aren’t willing or competent to test classic cars. I’ve been told on several occasions “not to bring it back because we can’t cope”.

On emissions, when I had my Alfa Spider, one tester failed it. I took it with no adjustments to my local “shed”, run by a pensioner with oily fingers, and he passed it. I asked him to explain, and he said “Look, it’s a 1972 car. I start it up, and if I can see the garage wall through the cloud of exhaust smoke, it’s fine”

My last MoT emissions result on my S2 is here.

Good post. My local MOT man is a legend. E.g. small exhaust leak gummed up on the spot . He spots a fail and says he knows I'll fix it a s.a.p. The best one recently ~ can't test the brakes on a roller due to LSD fitted ~ just stands on brake pedal as it comes of the stand = pass.

[Saltire]

I would also think carefully about where you take the Elan for its MoT. In my experience many run-of-the-mill MoT stations aren’t willing or competent to test classic cars. I’ve been told on several occasions “not to bring it back because we can’t cope”.

On emissions, when I had my Alfa Spider, one tester failed it. I took it with no adjustments to my local “shed”, run by a pensioner with oily fingers, and he passed it. I asked him to explain, and he said “Look, it’s a 1972 car. I start it up, and if I can see the garage wall through the cloud of exhaust smoke, it’s fine”

My last MoT emissions result on my S2 is here.

Good post. My local MOT man is a legend. E.g. small exhaust leak gummed up on the spot . He spots a fail and says he knows I'll fix it a s.a.p. The best one recently ~ can't test the brakes on a roller due to LSD fitted ~ just stands on brake pedal as it comes of the stand = pass.

Thanks Jim. In fact the “see the garage wall” quote came from Cresswells at California Crossroads - just down the road from you

[Bern]

If you update your profile with your location, I'm sure somebody can recommend a good MOT tester in your area

[muley]

We're drifting off topic here, Jonathan. I'd rather not embarrass my tester, suffice it to say he is nearer Wokingham than Cresswells..

Jim

[Quantum2001]

Well I took the car back for a re-test yesterday and it passed. I explained to the tester that he had tested it to the wrong standard for emissions and after replacing, plugs, plug leads, air filter, top ball joint, brake hose and freeing up all the breaks, I'm there. Thanks very much for all the help offered on here it was extremely valuable.
I'm not sure if the ball joint was original but the bolts wouldn't come out and also getting the flexible hose off was a challenge. I also adjusted the handbrake eventually and all I could think was, whos' idea was it to put that metal strengthening plate in the centre console directly above the adjusters?
I've now decided to replace the ball joint on the opposite side and replace the seals in the front calipers as they look well past their best....more money!!

Russell